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Wednesday, May 4, 2016

WRV School Board rescinds motion aimed toward a new gym

Thursday, January 17, 2013

Lyons resident John Coleman.(By Nick Schneider)
Lyons Town Council President Scott Powers
(By Nick Schneider)
SWITZ CITY ---- A plan approved last month by the White River Valley Board of School Trustees to launch negotiations with an architect for design work on a new multi-purpose/gym facility at the Junior-Senior High School building has been sidelined.

The board voted Thursday night to rescind an earlier vote cast Dec. 20 by a 4-3 majority.

The motion to rescind the earlier approved motion made by former board member Andrew Graves on his final night on the board was made Thursday by board member Mark Downey. The motion was also favored by Roger Shake and new board members Andy Davis and Chris Cornelius. Board members Charlie Records, Roger Weaver and Jason Davidson dissented.

Graves' motion would have employed the Vincennes architect firm of Myzak and Palmer to do the design work for an auxiliary gym once a negotiated fee was arrived at.

Downey said he didn't like the earlier motion, which would possibly cost in the $2 million range to build a multi-purpose/auxiliary gym, saying it was 'more of a want than a need' for the school district.

Board member Records said in his view if there is not going to be another gym built, then the junior high teams should be required to use the larger gym at the junior-senior high school and not the elementary gyms.

He pointed out that some of the 5th and 6th grade basketball team players are not getting home until 7 or 8 p.m. because they have to share practice space and time with the junior high squads.

"If we don't want to increase our gym space then we need to move the junior high teams back up here (to Switz City)," Records said.

Board member Cornelius said the decision on constructing a gym needs much more discussion, rather than what he called a 'spur of the moment decision'.

Before the vote during patron comments, Dr. Scott Powers D.D.S., who serves as president of the Lyons Town Council, addressed the board saying $2 million should not be spent on a fourth gym for the school district.

He pointed out that the existing three gyms -- at the junior-senior high school, Worthington Elementary and Lyons Elementary, had worked for 20 years and there are 100 less students enrolled than there were two decades ago.

"We probably need less gym space not a new fourth gym," Powers said.

Powers stated that the budget and enrollment are declining and personnel positions have been cut due to a lack of funding.

He noted that repairs are needed at both elementary school buildings and stated, "Taxpayers do not want higher taxes for something that does not improve education and also for something that is truly not needed."

Powers offered an option to the board to consider if there is a need for additional gym practice space that he said makes more financial sense.

The Lyons Community Building contained a basketball court that could be rented by the school for $50 for each day's use ---- which he said is less than one-half of the interest cost alone on a new $2 million building.

Powers said interest on $2 million using a 2 percent rate would be $111 per day ---- resulting in $40,000 in interest payments calculated on 360 days a year.

A planned part of the design work for an auxiliary gym was to also include a stage facility.

Powers said as an alternative to building a stage geared for a musical or play, the school might be wise to look at possibly renting Shawnee Theatre in Bloomfield, like the Bloomfield Junior-Senior High School does for its productions.

Another district property owner, John Coleman, of Lyons, also encouraged the board to think again when it came to spending taxpayer money for a gym.

"It (the gym) would be not necessarily be for a need. It's probably a want," Coleman said as a prelude to what board member Downey later said in the meeting.

Coleman cited cuts in school funding from the state ---- about 13 percent in the General Fund or about $1.7 million in the biennium budget; a 30 percent increase in insurance rates; the need to take out a $4 million temporary loan to meet payroll expenses due to cash flow problems as reasons not be go in debt to build the auxiliary gym.

Coleman pointed out that the board on the Thursday agenda was considering another temporary loan.

"I like gyms. I like our programs. I like our school, but its number one goal is education and that's why we need a loan because we are having trouble paying for it," Coleman stressed.

Coverage of other action and discussion at Thursday's board meeting, including the search for an interim superintendent to replace former Supt. Layton Wall, who took early retirement last week, will be published in Saturday's edition.

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If people attended board meeting more often they might know we have had temporary loans for several years. It's used to pay for things because state money never arrives on time. A little research will show it doesn't cost even close to 2 million for aux gym. Most of the members already know that.

-- Posted by Matt W Hockman on Thu, Jan 17, 2013, at 10:15 PM


Wouldn't it be nice to someday get ahead enough that we won't have to borrow money for payroll? So that we could make payroll even though we may not have received the money from the state? Think of the money we could save by not paying interest on this borrowed money. Also, even if we could build a gym for $100,000, that would be too much because: 1) we don't have the money, it would have to be borrowed, and 2) it has been clearly shown that a new gym is not needed.

-- Posted by 0123 on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 12:35 AM

The gym will be needed when they bring the elementary kids to Central! Looks like someone was looking down the road for a change.

-- Posted by EvenPar76 on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 8:41 AM

So will the community building in Lyons be open for all sport like baseball, softball, and golf ?

-- Posted by RuthieG1954 on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 8:42 AM

Kudo's to the new WRV School Website :) I love it!

It's up and running! Wonderful improvement!!

-- Posted by Orion's Belt on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 10:52 AM


So if we have it rented all the time. Isn't the community getting screwed out of getting to use it? It's called a community building not a sports complex.Is $50 the cost to the community to rent it?

-- Posted by Matt W Hockman on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 11:15 AM

I am not finding the new website.

-- Posted by WRV MOM on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 11:27 AM

Floor in that building is very slick tile. Not very good for basketball practice.

-- Posted by cannonball on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 11:33 AM


It's very easy to find. Home page of the paper, scroll down and look at the right column of community and school links, White River Vally is there . Click that and it loads our new and improved website up !

Great help for keeping parents updated , thank you !

-- Posted by Orion's Belt on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 12:02 PM

This is a question I ask for years is if we are supposibly 1 school. The 5&6 grade teams should be together.Will someone please give me a answer? That eliminates alot of practices.

-- Posted by Matt W Hockman on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 12:39 PM

John. I ask the old board few years back got zero answers. I will ask at next board meeting. I bet I will get some answers this time. This board try's to work as a TEAM.

-- Posted by Matt W Hockman on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 12:58 PM

Has anyone on here but me ever noticed that if your opinion on a matter dosent match the opinion of ...JOHNPAULCOLEMAN..,then..YOUR .. opinion on the subject is .. "flawed" .. in his eyes?

-- Posted by cmfceo on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 6:50 PM

YOU DID UPSET ME VERY MUCH. i am just trying to show you how your comments can upset other p-eople too. commenting the way you do to people is not funny in my opinion. im not the first one to complain.

-- Posted by cmfceo on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 7:56 PM

Cmfceo, please list the opinions of johnpaulcoleman in this article that are not true. In fact, he gives no opinion but only facts. That is why so many people value what he has to say. You would be wise to listen as well. If facts hurt your feelings then maybe you should not read the news paper.

-- Posted by 0123 on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 9:11 PM

A new gym is a want and not a need however it would be nice to have four gyms to host tournaments. Most tournaments cost anywhere from $200 to $300 plus admission cost for family. A tournament for grades 2 through 6 with an average of 30 teams will bring revenue for WRV. Money from concessions, fees, parents from outside the community eating at local restraunt's etc. Also it might just bring in new kids and some kids back to WRV. With 0123 and JPC its just taxes and i can understand that, but to the majority they will not see that much of a rise. I guess we can just loose another hundred kids too, however i dont see how that brings money in either.

-- Posted by Thomas Burks on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 9:59 PM

johnpaulcoleman has always been factual and made his point well. Most of the time it has been done with humor and sarcasm. I enjoy them, please continue. I would hope all on here learn to be able to give and take opposing view points. I would challenge all to do half of what he does for others. As for this topic, I think a gym is a horrible idea and thank the board for stopping it. Please note, johnpaulcoleman don't let thisgo to your head,I have not agreed with you on most topics.

-- Posted by switz on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 10:01 PM

What tournament can be hosted for grades 2-4 that justifies a new gym? Consequently, it's not something that even exist with those grades in our community. Just saying....

-- Posted by Ice Breaker on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 11:04 PM

2nd grade league at bloomfield with teams of wrv,bloomfield,loogotee,linton,eastern,linton and northknox. 3rd and 4th grade league at dugger community building with teams from linton,wrv and shakamak. After league play they host a tournament for any school team. Sullivan, Vincennes, North Daviess and more have showed up for tournaments. This doesnt justify a new gym but at least its a good idea to bring in income for many years. Whats your idea to help bring in income?

-- Posted by Thomas Burks on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 11:31 PM

Thats the problem we attack without facts when we need to work together. We are a community that wants the best for our kids but we all have individual different views. Thomas Burks

-- Posted by Thomas Burks on Fri, Jan 18, 2013, at 11:40 PM

0123 how much do you think they pull in just for the 1$ they charge at the door on a Sunday?

-- Posted by Thomas Burks on Sat, Jan 19, 2013, at 1:14 AM

switz, humor and sarcasm is not part of learning and more like bullying. You must be a renter?

-- Posted by Thomas Burks on Sat, Jan 19, 2013, at 2:28 AM

cmfceo, I would be willing to bet you don't even live in the WRV school district. Do you even have a dog in this race?

-- Posted by scoop on Sat, Jan 19, 2013, at 4:35 AM

Burks', Before you ask....No, I don't rent.

-- Posted by scoop on Sat, Jan 19, 2013, at 4:38 AM

The Burks'

I do not rent anything, I own my home free and clear. I also am a Teacher in the WRV school district. I also think humor is a very important tool to use to teach. I also think that a form of bullying is when you can't refute the point, attack the poster.


-- Posted by switz on Sat, Jan 19, 2013, at 6:33 AM

"Renter"of the community building. Im bringing up the benfits of a new gym vs. renting.

-- Posted by Thomas Burks on Sat, Jan 19, 2013, at 3:22 PM

I do not rent anything, that includes the community building.

-- Posted by switz on Sat, Jan 19, 2013, at 4:18 PM


Are you serious. I know what you meant by renting and I bet a lot of other people do to. When you start doing things like that then your integrity is questioned from here on out.

-- Posted by scoop on Sat, Jan 19, 2013, at 4:33 PM

Burks: Even with 100 adults at $1 each on Sunday and $300 for hot dogs and other goodies, you are still a long way from even paying the interest bill on a new gym that will run you $111 per day. Don't forget you still have to also pay off the $2,000,000 loan and also money that will be needed for water, sewer, electric,insurance, and cleaning. So, you are right that ball would bring in "some money", but "some money" is no where close to making building a new gym a good business decision for our school given our financial position.

-- Posted by 0123 on Sat, Jan 19, 2013, at 6:22 PM

Cannonball: the floor is not tile, we have a broom, we would be happy to have you volunteer.

-- Posted by 0123 on Sat, Jan 19, 2013, at 6:37 PM

Just FYI...Linton is bigger than WRV and only has 3 gyms (it workd for the school teams). Sadly though, the elementary teams/tournaments mentioned here probably won't ever be at Linton due to the gym fess and rules. Our second grade team is practicing at another school just so we can practice for our games at Dugger and Bloomfield.

-- Posted by jkwalker on Sat, Jan 19, 2013, at 9:16 PM

I guess I have a comment concerning Charlie Records stating that kids are not getting home until 7:00-8:00 pm. I assume they do go home on the bus then do their homework, and eat dinner, then go back to practice from 7:00-8:00 pm. This has been going on forever with junior high and 5th and 6th graders everywhere. It isn't something new and not doable. During the spring, fall, and summer, I see many kids that age playing outside until 9:00-9:30. We did it all the time while I was in school. It was just part of playing sports. Sure it would be nice if money were no object to have a gym where every sport could practice from 3:15 until 4:30 or 5:00 pm. It still sounds more like a want than a need. No offense to Mr. Records but it will be interesting to see if he gets relected since most of the people he represents seem to feel the oppositie. I guess this shows just how much power goes with a school board position. The power to spend millions of taxpayers money.

-- Posted by aconcernedparent12 on Sun, Jan 20, 2013, at 9:12 PM

Then i guess you have a problem with change and moving foward too! Bring up some ideas to bring in income and students to wrv. we have A grade from the state and good I-step scores. Any idea is welcomed. What will keep kids from leaving and draw family's in. Quit attacking people that are trying find a solution because yours doesnt cut it.

-- Posted by Thomas Burks on Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 12:11 AM

Sad, so much time and energy spent on issues that won't make a dimes worth of difference when our students wake up the day after graduation (if they make it that far).

-- Posted by Thought 4 today on Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 6:15 AM

FYI to everyone

enrollment this year is up at WRV!! Your idea of spending 2 million and then paying for it with tournaments doesnt make (cents) :) I find it ironic that a person attacks another then tells that person to stop attacking others. I think a concerned parents solution was to not spend 2 million on a gym that he/she doesn's feel is needed. Also change just for the sake of change isnt necessarily a good thing! Also I do agree that board members are accountable to the people they represent. That isn't an attack just a general statement.

-- Posted by teacher too on Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 6:28 AM

The Burks' & cmfceo

This is a blog for discussion. The point of discussion is to debate ideas and concepts. The point of debate is to point out flaws or strengths in ideas and concepts. This is what you are wrongfully calling attacking a person.

Scroll up and read aconcernedparent12's comment. It is well written and conveys a point without PERSONALLY attacking anyone. Scroll up and read johnpaulcoleman's comments, they are nothing more than answers to others questions and stating his opinion on the topic at hand. Nothing PERSONAL. I would ask all and especially the two of you to stop trying to make this PERSONAL.

We should be able to attack ideas or concepts, not people.

-- Posted by switz on Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 7:59 AM

Switz, do you have any ideas to help?

-- Posted by Thomas Burks on Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 10:21 AM

Yes I do

A.Stop personal attacks

B.Get the school where it actually has money in the bank not borrowing to make payroll.

C. Get the 2 million dollar loan we took out for roof and signs paid off first.

D. Focus on only education until these things happen.

-- Posted by switz on Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 10:34 AM

Aconcernedparent12, thank you for your comments. Nothing personal was taken.

I agree, it is easy to assume children go home and do their homework. We, and I know many parents attempt this often herculean effort as much as we can.

You have to remember many parents work and homework just does not get accomplished right after school. Many families have 2 or more kids going in different directions to practices. And at our school that can make a big difference. Our grade schoolers practice at their own school. High schoolers at Switz. And people tend to forget but our Jr High kids are split into two places....the Jr. High girls practice and have their games at the Lyons gym, the Jr high boys practice and have their games at the Worthington gym.Imagine your 5th grader at Lyons, your 7th grade son at Worthington and your high schooler at Switz. And yes, everyone does try to carpool and share rides as much as they can.

We have Jr. High boys who live in Sandborn who practice at Worthington. We have Jr. High girls from the northern parts of Worthington who practice till 8:30 at Lyons. As A.D. at Lyons I try hard to rotate and make sure no one team gets stuck with the late practice. So this is not an every night event. But I still do not enjoy having 10 year olds in the gym till 8:30 at night. And I don't enjoy having our Jr High Worthington girls leaving our gym at 8:30 or 8:45 at night to drive back to Worthington.

I am lucky, at least mine children are all the same age and at this point we are all in the same building. It is still a challenge. We have cheer 3:30 - 4:30, then my girls and myself will practice 4:30 to 5:00, then Jr High will come in 5:00 to 7:00 (we give Jr high 2 hours) and then my son will practice 7:00 to 8:30. Again, this is not an every night event but some weeks could happen a couple of times a week. My kids are used to doing homework in my office and having a snack. Sometimes because of working mothers I will keep 4 or 5 extra girls after school and run a study hall untill they have practice at 4:30. Some of our kids get off the bus at 4:00 or even after 4:00 and there is simply no way some parents can get their children back to school for practice at 4:30 or 5:00.

Please, I would like to point out......I am not complaining. Just simply pointing out some issues concerning the topic of discussion. And as everyone knows I like sports, love basketball and gyms. They are great places for kids to hang out and be active and socialize with their peers. My kids have ben gym rats for years. We make it work and have alot of fun. We all face these same challenges when you have active children. I guess Charlie and I are guilty of being old fashsioned or maybe we are just getting old and we need to be home and in bed by 9:00!

Claire Cabel Records

-- Posted by barnyard on Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 11:14 AM

It sounds like because you are a working mom with three children, you are very busy. I am sorry that I do not feel the people of the school district should build another gym to make your schedule easier. I just don't feel that it is the tax payers responsibility . I don't mean this with disrespect, I just am remembering my life as a working mother with three kids. Trust me it is worth it.

-- Posted by switz on Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 11:50 AM

I gotta admit there are time when I miss the days of one of my children at 9:30pm mentioning they need cookies for school the next day!!!

-- Posted by switz on Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 12:30 PM


I did not ask to have a gym built to make MY schedule easier.

You assume that I want a gym built.

Charlie and I have different opinions on many issues and topics.

And you said above, "stop making this personal."

I think I know what life with my children is worth.

Claire Cabel Records

-- Posted by barnyard on Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 12:41 PM

"It is ironic but you would think 3 gyms would be enough."

Claire Cabel Records

-- Posted by barnyard on Fri, Dec 21, 2012, at 11:50 AM

I think we are all clear on how you feel about a new gym.

-- Posted by switz on Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 12:57 PM


My statement simply implies that yes, I agree 3 gyms should be enough but surrounding issues could imply otherwise. That is why I used the word ironic, something opposite to what is expected. I then went on to discuss issues that the general public might not realize in regard to the gyms.

Your words in an earlier blog above...........

"This is a blog for discussion. The point of discussion is to debate ideas and concepts. The point of debate is to point out flaws or strengths in ideas and concepts." "We should be able to attack ideas or concepts not people".

I agree. I can appreciate your comment about the tax payers responsibility and a new gym. I understand it and I can certainly relate to that statement but you chose to add to your comment "to make your schedule easier". It is just not true. You chose to make it personal. You could have left that off and had a great point of discussion in regard to the taxpayer and the gym.

Claire Cabel Records

-- Posted by barnyard on Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 3:11 PM

I did not mean just yours. I see how that could be interpreted. Please insert the word anyone's in place or your.

-- Posted by switz on Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 3:17 PM

Sad, so much time and energy spent on issues that won't make a dimes worth of difference when our students wake up the day after graduation (if they make it that far).

-- Posted by Thought 4 today on Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 6:15 AM

*Very good Point *

-- Posted by switzie on Tue, Jan 22, 2013, at 4:13 AM

I think that the school should act as one school After all it is the White River Valley Students and should be the same in sports, combining the 5th and 6th grade elementary sports would eliminate 2 practice times...

The last thing that should be done is build a building that we cannot pay for! Pay for what you owe then discus the next expenditure.

Is the Stage at Worthington any better than the stage at the highschool? I have to agree it is terrible! the entire band cannot fit on it and the plays could be so much better and I suggest using a different stage such as Worthington or Lyons? I'm really not sure how well theirs are but they cannot be as bad as the high schools' in my opinion. I would rather see them rent the auditorium at Linton as to rent the Shawnee...

-- Posted by lillymae on Wed, Jan 23, 2013, at 3:18 PM

Oh and one more thing, I just wish Thomas Burk's & cmfceo, who are trying to be catty and not help and just trying to bash Johnpaulcoleman would find somewhere else to get your drama,. Because you are not trying to resolve anything you are coming across as childhood bully's who have never grown up! Listen to John he is not being a bully and is a very knowledgeable person who seems to me is just trying to help. He has taken a lot of time to go to the meeting and research what have you done?

-- Posted by lillymae on Wed, Jan 23, 2013, at 3:25 PM

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