Let's talk about Vick, courthouse, Web site, golf

Not everyone is sick of hearing about Vick! The Humane Society of the United States and all concerned about animal welfare are STILL VERY INTERSTED in this story. We can be concerned about animal welfare and medical insurance...it's not one over the other as you imply. As for when it will end...it will never end as long as humans continue to abuse animals. Please re-think your statements. I'm always amazed when someone comments on animal abuse not being as important as other issues. It's an important issue on it's own, it's not a contest of which issue is more important! This one happens to be in the news more because Vick is a well-known public figure. He's only the tip of the ice berg on dog-fighting...it goes on day after day and continues in this country and others. Believe me it's very important to the dogs who are tortured, torn apart, and killed as "sport". There are many many important issues in this country that need resolved and this is one of them. Please don't think because someone is highly interested in this case they are't interested in any other important issues...untrue!

Please remember, by writing and talking about Vick, we are TRYING to educate the public! So much of the public NEEDS that, as Michael Vick did. It was a barbaric act by a sub-human that did it for self gratification ONLY, he did not need the $$$, just got a sick enjoyment out of watching animals suffer, and self enjoyment out of MAKING dogs suffer. Please don't allow this type of ignorance to continue!

And we wonder why we have an epidemic of dog bites & attacks......................it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the connection.

What is wrong with these people? Remember, these barbarians, such as Mike Vick, are our children's IDOLS.....talk about an abuse of power.

They do this for their own sick gratification ONLY, they definitely do NOT need the money!

These people are sub-human and show a total lack of education as well as lack of humanity.

Dog fighting is illegal in all 50 states.

If you suspect ANYONE of dog fighting activities, please call 317-262-TIPS asap or visit www.crimetips.org, YOU CAN REMAIN ANONYMOUS.

Sir: I'm sorry that you're tired of hearing about the Michael Vick case. Personally, I'm not. The more it's discussed, the more light is shed on this reprehensible practice. I've seen bait dogs and fighting dogs, and I can tell you that this is one of the most horrific crimes that's plaguing our cities. In my opinion, bring on the coverage of this monster. He's as bad as a child rapist or a serial killer, and the public has a right to know exactly who Michael Vick really is and what he's done with the millions that the NFL has paid him. My suggestion here is this ... if you're tired of hearing about this crime, change the channel or read another news story. With Greene County having a less-than-stellar track record when it comes to animal rights and welfare, this story should be mandatory study in all Greene County schools. - Susan Hobbs

Wow. You just set the county back a few steps in it's quest to protray itself and it's community as 'caring' and progressive.

I guess you'll need that medical insurance if someone's trained fighting dog rips into you.

Dismissing issues as 'not important' just because they don't pertain to your own daily, personal life, is not wise.

If you think animal fighting does't occur in Greene County, think again. Maybe we don't hear about it because we don't have a good 'animal control' system in place? (If the shelter can't handle a dog that is delivered to their door, do you think they are out investigating animal fighting reports? Rooster fighting? I doubt it).

I wonder if this is why we rarely see any 'investigative' reporting on the local 'humane society' perceived incompetence, because it's not deemed 'important'?

Amen, Susan!

It SHOULD be mandatory study in local schools! If a 'nations greatness can be judged on how it treats it's animals'....Greene County is never going to advance itself with this lack of compassion and self centered thinking, which sadly, does seem to plague this county. The majority mindset in Greene County does definately seem to say animals are disposable property and not worth discussing or protecting. More important things to talk about you know.

A few years ago there was a horrific kidnapping, rape and murder of a mentally handicapped young woman. My guess is some of her murderers displayed early warning signs....like animal abuse. Too bad no one thought it was 'important' enough to intervene at that point, before they progressed to human torture and murder.

I sincerely think your attitude regarding the Michael Vick incident is a bit ignorant. I think while any topic in the media can be "overtalked" about, something like this needs to be put out there and the public educated that this type of thing goes on and has no economic stereotype. In your county as well as surrounding counties, animal neglect and abuse is prevelant. Perhaps a more dignified opinion to something such as the Vick thing would fair better to show that your county cares about the welfare of animals, not that its media staff doesn't.

Chris, you got jumped on man. I think it was a little unfair because if they really read your story it was about your distaste for hearing about the plight of Michael (rich and famous football player) Vick, not the fact that people need to be cognizant of the heinous crimes he committed.

Ladies and gentlemen, give Chris a slight break here, he would never say that the story about the killings doesn't need to be told nor that it is less of a story than anything else he's reported on. This was taken out of context.

"Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend." ~Corey Ford

I sure didn't know that Greene County had an animal neglect and abuse problem. I would like to read about that someday, if someone could do a good investigative piece.

I miss my Dog. Sad thing about Dogs, they don't live long enough.

Mike Vick should be shot, the conspiracy continues, the courthouse will be settled out of court as to protect the failures of certain people overseeing the project, the line is 10 to 1, and who really cares about golf?

I have to agree with Simmons.

Chris was only talking about the fact that the general public gets tired of hearing about the "Rich & Famous" over & over... NOT about the crimes they commit.

I guess some people just put a different spin on what they read into a story.

Umm..no, I think it was the mention that there were many more things happening in our country that 'are more important', that was off putting.

We all have daily struggles, we all need more of something but unless you are a child or an elderly person who can't defend themselves or speak up for themselves, people who are training animals to kill each other for 'sport' is more important than the many mundane problems we have.

IT is MORE important because things like animal abuse are HUGE symptoms of something bigger that is wrong with our country. Animal abuse and neglect is directly assoicated with domestic abuse and neglect of children. THe only thing bigger then our county's 'animal abuse and neglect' problem (although it is under reported) is the child abuse and neglect. THey are intertwined. http://www.paws.org/help/report/connection.php

Through the media saturation of the Vick case, many more people have seen how barbaric and horrific dog fighting is and more importantly, how PREVELANT it is in our country. It's happening everywhere. If you thing children of those involved in dog fighting are not being abused, you are naive.

The fact we don't read about it happening in Greene County doesn't mean it isn't. Because it surely is. Perhaps we don't have an aggressive enough animal welfare investigator out there putting a case together , or maybe the media here choses to ignore it because it's 'not as important' as our personal issues, getting medical insurance, etc.

When some innocent creature, child or elderly or handicapped person is being abused, THAT is the priority in a caring society. And it deserves as much attention as it can get. Anything to jostle us out of our comfortable daily routine of thinking only about ourselves and what affects us or our pocketbook , directly, is a good thing. Your problems are nothing compared to what some others in your community are suffering.

To Green County Patriot -

FYI the first case of child abuse in this country was brought to light by a HUMANE SOCIETY. It is a known fact that kids who torture or harm animals do in fact have a tendency to go on in life as adults becoming abusive to HUMANS.

If you read thru the previous posts, no one said pets are people...they said they should be treated humanely and education in elementary schools is a good start to teach children to care for animals with compassion. When you have generation after generation thinking animals are "disposable" or "property" to do with as they wish, the only hope of changing that attitude is in school, as the parents obviously are not educated enough to care.

Your inference that those of us who feel strongly about this subject are neglecting our "human" families is inane.

Dog fighting as we know it originated in rural areas of this country and moved in to infect urban areas. Michael Vick's dog fighting affinity was born in the barns of rural America. There is little doubt that your neighbors, police, judges and "up-standing" citizens are engaging in this blood sport as well. I urge the writer of this article to look into the history of dog fighting and then state that this story is irrelevent or over-hyped. I encourage serious discussion of the social ills dog fighting brings to communities. While rural fighting is what has infected the urban areas, it will only be a matter of time before the opposite happens. Drugs, weapons and gang activity are part of the urban dog fighting arena. How long until these hugely profitable aspects of dog fighting make it back out to the rural orgins?

For most of my time, I try to lead a somewhat balanced life. I work, I sleep, I eat and I recreate and generally in that order of proportion. Part of my recreation comes from reading and watching TV. I try to watch the news and sports and a few other programs to let my mind rest a little. I know one thing for sure, as far as Old Simmons is concerned, I don't give a hoot about ever hearing another thing about Michael Vick again. Say what you want, but I've heard enough. I know the mistreatment of animals is inhumane and I don't do it nor do I condone it. But I've heard enough of this story.

Yes, indeed we can assume and prove in most cases that violent offenders abused animals. If you don't KNOW that simple fact, they you probably don't have an educated valid opinion on the subject of animal cruelty, but perhaps you can learn?

How does whether or not an animal have a soul have any bearing on the fact they have feelings and feel pain, fear, terror isolation, as well as love?

As noted below in an article from the ASPCA, 'like a canary in a coal mine, animal abuse indicates a BIGGER PROBLEM IN OUR SOCIETY!!

http://ezinearticles.com/?Animal-Cruelty:--The-Key-to-Serial-Minds&id=35856

But what do serial killers like Dahmer, Bundy and others like them have in common?

'Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Andrew Cunanan, David 'Son of Sam' Berkowitz, and Albert 'Boston Strangler' DeSalvo were ALL cruel to animals before they started hurting people.'6 Subsequently, killer teenagers Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold (Columbine HS), and Kip Kinkel were also known for their past history of animal cruelty. In the study from of 'The Care of pets within child abusing families,' presented by DeViney & Lockwood, 88 percent of the homes were animal abuse had occurred, children were also abused.

In conclusion, I summise this important literature from the San Francisco Chronicle commentary by Margo DeMello:

"...every time we hear of a young person abusing an animal, it is explained away by family and often authorities as a 'youthful indiscrection'...What the authorities and parents of these young men fail to realize is that their behavior may signal that something is wrong with these men, which could very easily escalate into something much worse. The evidence is not just anecdotal; numerous studies, including the 1998 work of Randall Lockwood and Frank R. Ascione ("Cruelty to Animals and Interpersonal Violence," Purdue University Press), have shown that children who engage in animal cruelty are more likely to commit more violent acts as adults. There is also a strong link between abuse of animals and domestic violence, with animal abusers much more likely to batter their wives or girlfriends as well...

Youthful violence toward animals is a very serious issue, and it needs to be taken seriously by not only animal advocates like myself, but by those who are concerned about violence in our society." - Margo DeMello, Ph.D.

http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer?pagename=cruelty_kidsandcruelty

Cruelty toward animals does more than cause other living, feeling beings to experience pain and fear. Like the death of a canary in a coal mine, violence toward animals can be an indicator that people are also in danger. Someone who commits animal abuse may have serious psychological problems. Studies have found that many people convicted of violent crimes had a history of animal cruelty. Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Andrew Cunanan, David "Son of Sam" Berkowitz, and Albert "Boston Strangler" DeSalvo were cruel to animals before they started hurting people. Adults are not the only ones whose cruelty to animals can be a sign of deeper troubles. Many murderous children and teenagers-such as Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold of Columbine High School-also have histories of animal cruelty.

FYI If I were in charge of Vick's sentence he would spend the rest of his days lobbying against animal abuse FROM A JAIL CELL.

I would like to know where the info that animals do not have souls came from...and since you seem so sure they don't, how do you know that you have one? Because you were taught to believe it?

For the life of me I cannot fathom why people who are NOT animal welfare advocates always compare crimes against animals to crimes against humans touting that the crimes against animals are not AS IMPORTANT. What is the point in that?

Yes, I am definitely an advocate of animal welfare...that does not mean I am any less concerned with human welfare. As a caring human being I am capable of interest and concern in both areas.

I firmly believe the only way to eradicate animal abuse is through education and that education should start with children. Adults have either already formed their opinion (because of the way they were raised), choose to ignore the problem, or refuse to be educated about it. I would bet most of those who are uneducated about animal abuse have absolutely no idea how prevalent it is.

Hmmm..I thought the link posted before the obviously cut and pasted information would have been a pretty clear indicator it was not intended to be 'from me'. As well as the mention that it was from 'the article below'.

Here's a new link for you. The link between animal abuse and domestic violence is also supported by the FBI. http://www.hsus.org/hsus_field/first_strike_the_connection_between_animal_cruelt...

P.S Greene County Patriot, your lack of compassion and intolerence of others doesn't paint you as a very good example of a 'christian'. Since you are basing your opinions on the bible, you may like to make note of that. Your just continuing to paint 'greeen county' as 'small minded'.

The FACTS are still support on the relation of animal cruelty progression to human cruelty.

QUOTED from ASPCA. ORG:

http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer?pagename=crue...

Cruelty toward animals does more than cause other living, feeling beings to experience pain and fear. Like the death of a canary in a coal mine, violence toward animals can be an indicator that people are also in danger. Someone who commits animal abuse may have serious psychological problems. Studies have found that many people convicted of violent crimes had a history of animal cruelty. Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Andrew Cunanan, David "Son of Sam" Berkowitz, and Albert "Boston Strangler" DeSalvo were cruel to animals before they started hurting people. Adults are not the only ones whose cruelty to animals can be a sign of deeper troubles. Many murderous children and teenagers-such as Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold of Columbine High School-also have histories of animal cruelty.

http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer?pagename=cruelty_kidsandcruelty

Quoting from the Bible is admirable. I spent 12 formative years reading and listening to lectures on the Bible. One thing I've learned in life since then is that it's all a matter of interpretation. Different religions have their own spin on it.

And here's my spin - I believe every living creature has a soul and I believe God created all to live in harmony. And that's the end of my religion rant.

I abhor cruelty in any form - but most specifically of the defenseless. IMHO domesticated animals are the most defenseless of God's creatures. They are totally at the mercy of humans. And before someone gets off on a rant about child abuse, I think that is also an unredeemable crime. But the subject on this forum is animal abuse.

From what I've read in this newspaper and on other forums, Greene County has a long way to go on learning how to humanely treat animals.

Little late in responding to this blog. But if you have found somebody to play golf with that is happy no matter what happens. You should keep this person. They are hard to find.

Greene County Patriot, if becoming like you is what becoming a christian is all about, forget it. NO thank you!!!

The issues still stands that there is a strong link of those who are cruel to animals becoming cruel'/abuse to humans. It's a red flag that there is a problem that is serious and needs to be dealt with if we are going to make progress as a society.

Bomb threats at the schools, firing of military assault weapon at another person, robbery at a gas station, alcohol related wrecks, drunk driving and fleeing officers, corrections officer attacked, GCHS in the news for inhumane treatment of pets...yessiree Greene County is "the best place to raise a family"!

Sure hope you don't fall out of that tree stand while you're hunting.

Your goal is to emulate Jesus?????? WOW.

The biblical Jesus would be more likely found spending his 'off time', helping the helpless, easing suffering, comforting mourners, setting an example for peace, maybe even helping creatures that are being abused in the dog fighting world (or elswhere).

You probably wouldn't see him sittting in a deer stand! @@ More likely to heal the deer, I would think?

Feel free to justify yourself and your actions on that matter though, easier then thinkign it through if it conflicts with one's personal enjoyments, I'm sure.

Just where are all the dogfighting places in Greene County? Do you know someone that is involved in dogfighting? I have never heard anyone speak of it, nor seen any traces of it, in all my years of living here.

Still Hopeful: It is sad you take unsubstantiated and cruel potshots at our Humane Society. They now have a good board, good people running it, and I know from personal experience, I saw them out there investigating animal abuse cases, one very near my home. I'm a nosy neighbor and watched. By being so negative and telling untruths on a website, you are becoming part of the problem, instead of the solution. What good does that do?

Indiana Lady,

Perhaps they are good at making things 'appear' well on the surface, while making other poor decisions that affect animals lives negatively, on a less noticable scale? Note the Pate's case and other recent letters to the editor.

There are a few inexcusable issues such as: Animals not receiving proper deworming and vaccination upon ARRIVAL, Animals being adopted to unfit homes, adopters unscreened, no follow up on the animal once it leaves, animals leaving the shelter without being altered (spay/neutered) All this just ADDS to the county's problems.

Ask yourself if a true 'humane society' with integrity would SELL THE DEAD BODIES of the animals they euthanize for $2 each? If there is any question as to the ethics of the people deciding which animals live and which die, it may not be a stretch to wonder if some of the animals aren't worth more dead than alive?

Sometimes you have to look below the surface.

And please note, no one is saying perhaps they don't work HARD. But in my opinion, based on experience, they don't work SMART.

IF your Humane Society is so good, then why won't they work with REAL, 501(c)3 Public Charities to save the lives of their dogs?

Maybe because it is a little more work??? or just plain easier to kill the dogs than to complete the paper work for rescues???

We have saved the lives of 225 dogs in a little over 2 years, but your Greene Co. Humane Society won't work with us (OR MANY MANY other legit rescues) because we know someone that the Board doesn't like. What grade are we in again???

Amen, Love of Labs! It is a 'social club' and those they personally dislike are rejected and the ANIMALS pay the price. Unacceptable. Considering they recently went to great lengths to change their bylaws and TERMINATE the only members who bothered to show up at their meetings regularly, and who also helped provide rescue or contacts to rescue, because the members dared to be critical of some of their management/board, it is pretty clear that the GCHS board and managements egos are the #1 priorty for them. Not the welfare of animals and what is in the animals best interest. That is the truly sad thing; not that people dare to criticize them, that they themselves don't do all they truly can to save lives, due to their personal agendas and personal feelings.

Additionally, as an example of how they could work 'smareter', they could use the freezer in which they store dead bodies to sell, to freeze and store food so that they never run low.

Indiana Lady - perhaps you should get more involved with shelter work and animal welfare other than just being "nosy" and watching them from your doorstep. How many animals lives have you personally saved? To criticize those who do JUST THAT (save their lives) is totally uncalled for. Maybe when you are more informed about animal welfare you will be able to express an educated opinion.

You people have no idea just how involved I am in animal welfare, do you? You are laughable.

This was about Mr. Vick, the Courthouse and Golf. Now it is about the shelter. The conspiracy starts again. If you people are sitting in a restaurant, and you here someone mention their pet, do you start ranting about the shelter to them? Everything you post ends up being about that subject. I do understand that your whole world revolves around dogs and cats, but as mentioned before, there are more things that plague the HUMAN race that we need to pay attention to.

Well perhaps there is another forum in which to discuss the shelter if indeed that subject needs attention, which I'm sure it does.

Indiana Lady - why don't you tell us just how much you are involved in animal welfare? Education in animal welfare, years of experience, etc.....

Recent articles written by this same paper indicates to me that the shelter has not straightened up their act what so ever. Secondly, if you can tell whats going on in an investigation from sticking your nose out a window, then you should share the details of that investigation with us all. None of the employees or board members have ANY training in animal control/welfare. PERIOD.

As far as Mr. Vick, I think he will get what he deserves.

For those of you who think this isn't going on, or couldn't go on in your community think again. Just a little over a year or so ago they were investigating fighting rings in this area that were associated with rings up in northern Indiana - Gary and Muncie areas. Its a big business. Most times there are other crimes being associated with fighting rings as well. So for those who have kids, or pets (they also steal pets for "bait" as well), its a big wake up call to this problem which plagues every area of the country.

I agree horsewhisperer. This was about Vick and his wrong doing , my mention of the shelter was in relation to that, i.e. how can the shelter effectively investigate such cases when it cannot competently run it's daily business? I have reported to the GCHS, the local paper and the County Commissioners about a man raising roosters to sell into the fighting ring. Not one thing has been done, therefore I wonder about the competency of the GCHS and it all ties together. I have no authority to go out and insist on investigating a perceived cock fighting ring, so I worry about who wil.

The majority of comments on here evolved from the remark about being sick of hearing about the Vick cruelty case. It's a wonderful thing that there are people in Greene County interested enough in animal welfare to post. Hopefully the "rantings" will cause others to wake up and realize the county does have a problem and take steps to resolve it.

Interesting to read how one's who are not involved resort to feeble insults in an attempt to end the discussion on GCHS.

We can just hope that Michael Vick gets what he deserves, some day in some way. The only game I'd pay to see Michael Vick in is a "game" of the pitties he abused VS Michael Vick in his alma mater stadium even...... GAME of the Year............the "Pits vs Vick", now I'd pay to see that! A little like the Christians and the Lions. Heck, we could even only use 1 of his dogs to be the entire Pits team......just 1 on 1. I know that is not very Christian, and I will pray for forgiveness but darn....

We further hope that other animal abusers should receive their just due as well, no matter what they call themselves (animal advocates, shelter reps, rescuers, etc.).....it's all the same when you're killing dogs and you shouldn't be.

Indiana Lady - When you are finished laughing we would like to hear about your experience in animal welfare. Please elaborate (if you can).

Vick! Vick! All I see on the news! Fancy suits, excuses, pleas & now apoligies. Too much press on these obscene subjects, makes it bad for our children. Do you not recognize that with both Mother & Father working this is one of our biggest problems today? Kids are watching the TV, & see the press & see the attention that VIck is getting. He had fame & fortune, money & fancy clothes. He should get the max on all counts he is charged with. But let's remember, the child who is lonely & wants attention sees this as one way to get it. Remember the school bombings. After all the publicity there have been many threats in our own community. Granted they have just been threats, but-t-t, they are being made by someone who wants to stir up & get attention. Can't we dwell on the positive & stop giving the criminals so much publicity? Especially the demented ones.

Gee...do those last 2 posts even deserve a reply?

No.

Thank GOD!!!

Good post JSS.

One more vote to continue the updates on the Vick story.

Just to follow up with a few of the 'happy ending's' of some of the VICK Dogs! I know everyone is probably 'so' eager to hear about it! ha!

http://www.bestfriends.org/vickdogs/

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/